In my younger days, I spent a lot of time at the other end of Warwick Road. Because of the nature of cricket, the players are less remote from the audience. There are large portions of any match when they are not actively involved and you are quite likely to come across them doing other things. At grounds other than Old Trafford (smaller opposition grounds, like Buxton and Chesterfield, or the out-grounds like Blackpool and Liverpool) this was even more true. And of course they didn't have a separate training ground.
The footballers by contrast seemed to sweep in for matches and then sweep out again. And the explosive nature of a football match is more like their being on a stage, apart from those watching. And of course the experience of watching football itself is shorter, more intense, whereas a cricket match, even a one-day game, unravels itself on a wholly different time-frame.
So I have never quite rid myself of this difference, that football is a performance, something that lifts you out of yourself, whereas cricket is part of the real world, entwined into its fabric. Maybe it is just the time a match lasts. After all, within the compass of a county championship match a man could be condemned, crucified and rise from the dead (and these days still have a day free to spend on the golf course).
Even before the amounts of money made footballers so separate, cricketers were much less remote as a species. Is is sad, perhaps, that it's no longer possible for players to pursue professional careers in both sports; Botham's little excusion with Scunthorpe was an eccentricity, no more. Even in my day, they were a dying breed. I saw Chris Balderstone play both games and Jim Cumbes.
Now we just wonder how good a cricketer Phil Neville might have been. He has, of course, had a successful football career and made himself a very rich man, but he has never really been the stuff of legend, even if he has been there whilst they we were being made.
I sometimes wonder if he might not have sacrificed a good part of his football career for one match winning performance in a Test match against Australia.
Although I doubt if he would have sacrificed any of it for the chance to bring the county championship back to Lancashire, much more important though that might be to an awful lot of people, who still hope to see it in their lifetimes.
Thursday 26 July 2007
His Time Had Gone
In Alex Ferguson's recent interview in Macau with the assembled press, one passage struck me in particular. Asked how Arsenal would cope without Henry, he said,
"They lost him in December. I don't think they'll suffer too much. His time had gone and I think Arsene knew that."
One of the perverse attractions of sport, and of sporting heroes, is the brevity of that "time", the "pity that youth does not last".
They talk about the brevity of a sporting career (usually it seems these days as some facile justification for relatively mediocre talents being paid more in a year than, say, a nurse in a lifetime), but that window of "time" may be just a fragment of a career. In some cases, it seems it may be little more than one afternoon, to be in the right place at the right time. So much of it is luck.
You are never quite sure when a player's time has gone, when even the finest of players is no longer tuned to a team's subtle dynamic, or has started down the far side of his career.
I think Eric sensed it himself, but there are not that many who do "go out at the top", and indeed, there never have been. But in earlier days, a footballer had little choice but to ply his trade as long and wherever he could, because he had rarely been able to put that much money by. The pub and the Soreen factory lay in wait. Nowadays, a player with even a few seasons at the top should be comfortably insulated against a poverty-stricken old age.
Some players, obviously, just want to keep playing as long as they conceivably can, invent new and different roles and careers for themselves, which do not detract from what went before. Paul McGrath at Aston Villa; Dwight Yorke, for example, with his holiday in Australia, his World Cup and now his time at Sunderland; Sheringham, at West Ham and wherever he's now off to; Irwin and Ince at Wolves. Presumably, they are not driven entirely by money, unless they have gambled it all away, as much as by fear of what life may hold for them when they have to stop. They must all have heard those old players saying that nothing else is ever as good.
"Probably this is my fourth team — you could even say it's my fifth — but it's certainly my fourth, so there are moments when you have to make decisions regarding players' futures, which isn't easy because you get attached to them. You can't keep them forever and give them a pension. There comes a point where they have to move on. We did that and it was hard. But it was for the right reasons. We had to evolve and I knew that."
And I think supporters become even more attached to players. For myself, I think I retain a soft spot for anyone who has ever played for United, which is probably becoming obvious. Even Prunier and Taibi had their solitary moment in the sun and were endearing in the monstrosity of it all. If I had my way, we'd probably never get rid of anyone (well, Kieran going was probably the right move for all concerned, and the same will go for Smudger when he finally goes). And whatever SAF says, I think Ole's last contract was partly a pension, and the knowledge that keeping him at the club kept the memory of 1999 fresher, and that he could do good work behind the scenes.
"They lost him in December. I don't think they'll suffer too much. His time had gone and I think Arsene knew that."
One of the perverse attractions of sport, and of sporting heroes, is the brevity of that "time", the "pity that youth does not last".
They talk about the brevity of a sporting career (usually it seems these days as some facile justification for relatively mediocre talents being paid more in a year than, say, a nurse in a lifetime), but that window of "time" may be just a fragment of a career. In some cases, it seems it may be little more than one afternoon, to be in the right place at the right time. So much of it is luck.
You are never quite sure when a player's time has gone, when even the finest of players is no longer tuned to a team's subtle dynamic, or has started down the far side of his career.
I think Eric sensed it himself, but there are not that many who do "go out at the top", and indeed, there never have been. But in earlier days, a footballer had little choice but to ply his trade as long and wherever he could, because he had rarely been able to put that much money by. The pub and the Soreen factory lay in wait. Nowadays, a player with even a few seasons at the top should be comfortably insulated against a poverty-stricken old age.
Some players, obviously, just want to keep playing as long as they conceivably can, invent new and different roles and careers for themselves, which do not detract from what went before. Paul McGrath at Aston Villa; Dwight Yorke, for example, with his holiday in Australia, his World Cup and now his time at Sunderland; Sheringham, at West Ham and wherever he's now off to; Irwin and Ince at Wolves. Presumably, they are not driven entirely by money, unless they have gambled it all away, as much as by fear of what life may hold for them when they have to stop. They must all have heard those old players saying that nothing else is ever as good.
"Probably this is my fourth team — you could even say it's my fifth — but it's certainly my fourth, so there are moments when you have to make decisions regarding players' futures, which isn't easy because you get attached to them. You can't keep them forever and give them a pension. There comes a point where they have to move on. We did that and it was hard. But it was for the right reasons. We had to evolve and I knew that."
And I think supporters become even more attached to players. For myself, I think I retain a soft spot for anyone who has ever played for United, which is probably becoming obvious. Even Prunier and Taibi had their solitary moment in the sun and were endearing in the monstrosity of it all. If I had my way, we'd probably never get rid of anyone (well, Kieran going was probably the right move for all concerned, and the same will go for Smudger when he finally goes). And whatever SAF says, I think Ole's last contract was partly a pension, and the knowledge that keeping him at the club kept the memory of 1999 fresher, and that he could do good work behind the scenes.
Learned friends of Mr Watkins : Number One
The recent Argentinian cases highlight the number of lawyers that must now making a good living out of football, and becoming increasingly influential in the game. Maurice Watkins is not the only solicitor out there (although it feels like it sometimes).
Jan Levinson
Jan Levinson is a leading sports litigation lawyer at Beachcroft LLP in Manchester. Beachcroft’s specialist sports litigation practice handles "the full range of commercial law and dispute resolution issues and opportunities that face clubs, sporting bodies, officials, competitors, spectators, sports goods manufacturers, stadia and insurers".
Levinson moved to Beachcroft as a partner in 2003. After leaving the University of Newcastle upon Tyne with a 2:1 he had started as a trainee solicitor with Hammonds in 1990, qualified and worked himself up to a partnership in 1999.
He is variously described in the legal industry's own trade journals as a "brilliant litigator" and as having "a real talent for thinking laterally and creatively".
Beachcroft say Levinson now specialises in commercial dispute resolution, with a particular emphasis on IT disputes, property claims, sports law and defamation. He also heads their licensing team, which has advised Manchester United and Lancashire County Cricket Club on various issues.
Injury Time
Jan Levinson has found himself in the forefront of the continuing attempt to establish legal liability (and compensation) for players whose careers are ended or affected by injury.
Although even the football authorities gave up attempting to assess whether a foul was deliberate or not, when they removed the term "intentionally" from Law 12 (which concerns "fouls and misconduct") the Courts are still being asked to determine questions or intent or, more commonly, recklessness and negligence.
Levinson is currently acting for ex-Manchester United footballer, Ben Collett, against footballer Gary Smith and Premiership football club Middlesbrough FC in a case which is expected to result in substantial damages.
This case follows a challenge by Smith on Collett in May 2003, which resulted in a double fracture of his leg. After successfully resolving the issue of liability, Levinson is continuing to act for Collett to establish the level of damages to be paid to the player with a trial likely to be listed for later this year.
Speaking about the case, Levinson commented, "Ben was one of Manchester United’s most talented young footballers, but the seriousness of this injury ended his prospects of a promising future in the Premier League at the age of just 18. We expect that the damage to his career and loss of earnings will result in significant compensation."
This is the second time this year that an ex-MUFC footballer has been involved in a legal battle as a result of a career-ending injury. Earlier in the year, Michael Appleton was awarded £1.5m in damages against his consultant orthopaedic surgeon, Mr El-Safty, following an unnecessary operation to repair his knee after a training ground accident. (Although, on appeal, the surgeon successfully resisted a similar action brought by West Brom, on the basis his duty lay only to his patient, not to the club).
The Collett hearing will include high profile witnesses such as Sir Alex Ferguson and Gary Neville, who also gave evidence at the Appleton case.
Levinson previously represented former Manchester United player, Chris Casper, who secured undisclosed damages for a career-ending injury from Cardiff City FC in an out-of-court settlement. Casper was playing for Reading at the time of the incident, on Boxing Day 1999. A tackle by Richard Carpenter left him with a broken fibula, tibia and cruciate and ankle ligament damage. Casper underwent a series of operations and doctors inserted five metal screws into his left leg. The case was settled in 2003 on the day it was due to go to trial when Carpenter admitted liability.
And in the early days of this sort of litigation, Levinson acted for Gordon Watson in his successful court action against an opponent whose dangerous tackle ended his career in top-level football.
In a three-day hearing at Newcastle in 1999, Watson sought damages against Huddersfield Town FC and defender Kevin Gray following a Division One game in 1997. The tackle left Watson with a double fracture which required five operations and the insertion of a six inch metal plate. Jimmy Hill, who gave evidence, claimed that the tackle was the worst he had seen in fifty years of football. Commenting in court he said, "It was clearly reckless and wild. It offended against both the unwritten as well as the written code of the game." Watson was awarded over £950,000 by Mr Justice Taylor - the highest ever award by a Court at the time to be given in such a case.
According to Watson's solicitors, Hammond Suddards, the payout made him only the second player in football history to prove negligence against another player, and liability against that player's club. (The first was in 1997 when Stockport County's Brian McCord was awarded £250,000 in damages after his career was wrecked by a high tackle from Swansea's John Cornforth).
Watson himself said, "At the end of the day I go to work. If you get injured at work things like this have to be taken into account and this is what this judgement is about today."
After the Casper case, the PFA said it would like to see players offered an alternative to the courts. A spokesman said: "Any member should know football is a highly-competitive game, but there are boundaries they should not step over. Perhaps football should have something in place which would remove the need to go to court, maybe a fund for a player who suffers from a challenge that falls outside what you would consider reasonable."
Until then there will continue to be employment for Jan Levinson and his learned friends.
Sources
Beachcroft LLB Press Release 17.05.07 and their website.
'Hard Cases' in Court, by Martin Roderick, Centre for Research into Sport and Society, University of Leicester
Telegraph & Argus, first published Saturday 8th May 1999.
Lancashire Evening Telegraph, first published Tuesday 1st Jul 2003.
Jan Levinson
Jan Levinson is a leading sports litigation lawyer at Beachcroft LLP in Manchester. Beachcroft’s specialist sports litigation practice handles "the full range of commercial law and dispute resolution issues and opportunities that face clubs, sporting bodies, officials, competitors, spectators, sports goods manufacturers, stadia and insurers".
Levinson moved to Beachcroft as a partner in 2003. After leaving the University of Newcastle upon Tyne with a 2:1 he had started as a trainee solicitor with Hammonds in 1990, qualified and worked himself up to a partnership in 1999.
He is variously described in the legal industry's own trade journals as a "brilliant litigator" and as having "a real talent for thinking laterally and creatively".
Beachcroft say Levinson now specialises in commercial dispute resolution, with a particular emphasis on IT disputes, property claims, sports law and defamation. He also heads their licensing team, which has advised Manchester United and Lancashire County Cricket Club on various issues.
Injury Time
Jan Levinson has found himself in the forefront of the continuing attempt to establish legal liability (and compensation) for players whose careers are ended or affected by injury.
Although even the football authorities gave up attempting to assess whether a foul was deliberate or not, when they removed the term "intentionally" from Law 12 (which concerns "fouls and misconduct") the Courts are still being asked to determine questions or intent or, more commonly, recklessness and negligence.
Levinson is currently acting for ex-Manchester United footballer, Ben Collett, against footballer Gary Smith and Premiership football club Middlesbrough FC in a case which is expected to result in substantial damages.
This case follows a challenge by Smith on Collett in May 2003, which resulted in a double fracture of his leg. After successfully resolving the issue of liability, Levinson is continuing to act for Collett to establish the level of damages to be paid to the player with a trial likely to be listed for later this year.
Speaking about the case, Levinson commented, "Ben was one of Manchester United’s most talented young footballers, but the seriousness of this injury ended his prospects of a promising future in the Premier League at the age of just 18. We expect that the damage to his career and loss of earnings will result in significant compensation."
This is the second time this year that an ex-MUFC footballer has been involved in a legal battle as a result of a career-ending injury. Earlier in the year, Michael Appleton was awarded £1.5m in damages against his consultant orthopaedic surgeon, Mr El-Safty, following an unnecessary operation to repair his knee after a training ground accident. (Although, on appeal, the surgeon successfully resisted a similar action brought by West Brom, on the basis his duty lay only to his patient, not to the club).
The Collett hearing will include high profile witnesses such as Sir Alex Ferguson and Gary Neville, who also gave evidence at the Appleton case.
Levinson previously represented former Manchester United player, Chris Casper, who secured undisclosed damages for a career-ending injury from Cardiff City FC in an out-of-court settlement. Casper was playing for Reading at the time of the incident, on Boxing Day 1999. A tackle by Richard Carpenter left him with a broken fibula, tibia and cruciate and ankle ligament damage. Casper underwent a series of operations and doctors inserted five metal screws into his left leg. The case was settled in 2003 on the day it was due to go to trial when Carpenter admitted liability.
And in the early days of this sort of litigation, Levinson acted for Gordon Watson in his successful court action against an opponent whose dangerous tackle ended his career in top-level football.
In a three-day hearing at Newcastle in 1999, Watson sought damages against Huddersfield Town FC and defender Kevin Gray following a Division One game in 1997. The tackle left Watson with a double fracture which required five operations and the insertion of a six inch metal plate. Jimmy Hill, who gave evidence, claimed that the tackle was the worst he had seen in fifty years of football. Commenting in court he said, "It was clearly reckless and wild. It offended against both the unwritten as well as the written code of the game." Watson was awarded over £950,000 by Mr Justice Taylor - the highest ever award by a Court at the time to be given in such a case.
According to Watson's solicitors, Hammond Suddards, the payout made him only the second player in football history to prove negligence against another player, and liability against that player's club. (The first was in 1997 when Stockport County's Brian McCord was awarded £250,000 in damages after his career was wrecked by a high tackle from Swansea's John Cornforth).
Watson himself said, "At the end of the day I go to work. If you get injured at work things like this have to be taken into account and this is what this judgement is about today."
After the Casper case, the PFA said it would like to see players offered an alternative to the courts. A spokesman said: "Any member should know football is a highly-competitive game, but there are boundaries they should not step over. Perhaps football should have something in place which would remove the need to go to court, maybe a fund for a player who suffers from a challenge that falls outside what you would consider reasonable."
Until then there will continue to be employment for Jan Levinson and his learned friends.
Sources
Beachcroft LLB Press Release 17.05.07 and their website.
'Hard Cases' in Court, by Martin Roderick, Centre for Research into Sport and Society, University of Leicester
Telegraph & Argus, first published Saturday 8th May 1999.
Lancashire Evening Telegraph, first published Tuesday 1st Jul 2003.
Sunday 22 July 2007
Kieran Country : Where are they now?
The interesting thing about Kieran moving to Sunderland is that I'd always assumed he was high on the list of players Keane had in mind when he made his criticisms. The fact that Keano is prepared to take him on (and perhaps that Robbo was so anxious to get him back) clearly indicates that he isn't the arrogant wastrel that he appears to be. Various websites do say that he's a decent bloke off the pitch, although his demeanour on the field belies this. Whether Keano can get him to play with his mouth closed, literally or figuratively, I doubt, but given a chance of a more central role, he may yet come through.
And think how pleased cousin Charley will be to come out and find herself related to a famous Sunderland player (I am told that when this piece of news was announced in the "house" Charley didn't appear to know where Sunderland was).
It proves again that you're lucky if a couple of players from even the best youth teams make it as first-team regulars, especially at United.
Flicking around some of the archived blog threads from 2002, the names most frequently mentioned as youngsters likely to break through into the first team squad were Richardson, Mads Timm (see below) and, perhaps surprisingly, the Scottish player.
So the stars of the 2003 FA Youth Cup winning side are gradually diminishing at Old Trafford and there are now only three left. David Jones (the captain) could probably have stayed longer, but decided to leave last year, and won promotion with Derby. Phil Bardsley may yet stay at Old Trafford, but is clearly free to go if a decent offer emerges (and I have even seen him proposed as an England right-back of the future). Chris Eagles will have at least one more season in the first-team squad, to see if he can kick on, particularly after a couple of goals on the Asian tour. Tom Heaton is still on the books, although goalkeepers are always a bit different.
For the whole squad :
Luke Steele (GK) : at one point left as United's second-choice keeper, departed in 2006 for West Brom, as part of the deal that brought Tomas Kuszczak to United, although he has spent most of his time with them on loan at Coventry.
Phil Bardsley (DF) : lived in the shadow of The Cliff, and joined the United academy at 8 years old; still at Old Trafford, had a colourful loan spell at Rangers, more recently on loan to Villa and now strongly rumoured to be on his way to Everton.
Paul McShane (DF) : spent a successful season on loan at Brighton in 2005-06,where he was Player of the Season, before United sold him to West Brom along with Luke Steele; successful international debut for Republic of Ireland last season; recently bought by Keano for Sunderland and will join Kieran there this season.
Lee Sims (DF) : can't really find out what happened to him, after a trial at Cardiff in 2004 (although that same year on Championship Manager one bloke brought Sims in for Gary Neville, pushed up his value to £7 million and had him playing for England -amazing where Google will take you and, sadly, probably the closest Lee Sims will ever come to fame).
Lee Lawrence (DF) : loaned to Shrewsbury in 2004, released by United when the Pontins League side was discontinued, played for Livingston in Scotland but current whereabouts unclear.
David Jones (MF) : see above, sold to Derby County for £1 million, which Billy Davies reckoned was one of his best bargains ever, saving some £3\4 million on his real value; left-footed and eligible to play for both England and Wales; will be interesting to see how he manages in the Premiership.
Kieran Richardson (MF) : see above, sold to Sunderland for something that may presumably amount to £5.5 million if Sunderland reach Europe and Kieran scores a hat-trick for England.
Chris Eagles (MF) : see above, still at United, some eye=catching goals in Asia and is being talked up by SAF at the moment.
Eddie Johnson (FW) : after various loan spells, one of seven players released by United at the end of 2005-06, and moved to Bradford City.
Mads Timm (FW) (above) : once the most glittering of the young prospects, ("seasoned observers like Bryan Robson were left in awe by the FA Youth Cup semi-final performance of Manchester United's Danish star" - "different class" says Barry Fry), sent to a YOI for 12 months in 2005 for dangerous driving after racing another United youngster on public roads, was supported by United and returned to the club on release, but one of seven players released by United at the end of 2005-06 and returned to OB, one of his previous Danish clubs.
Ben Collett (MF) : young player of the year in 2003, another victim of the loss of a reserve team in 2005, adventurously moved first to New Zealand Knights and then on to Dutch club Apeldoorn. Currently involved in a claim for damages against Middlesbrough FC and Gary Smith, for a leg-breaking tackle in May 2003. According to his lawyer, "Ben was one of Manchester United’s most talented young footballers, but the seriousness of this injury ended his prospects of a promising future in the Premier League at the age of just 18. We expect that the damage to his career and loss of earnings will result in significant compensation."
Tom Heaton (GK) : loaned to Swindon last season, still at United and in the squad touring Asia.
Mark Howard (MF) : one of seven players released by United at the end of 2005-06 season, moved to Danish club Brondby.
Phil Picken (DF) : loaned to Chesterfield in 2005 and subsequently moved there permanently; recently had an operation for a double hernia but should be fit for the start of the new season.
Ramon Calliste (FW) : Welsh youth international who, strangely, in view of all the current fuss, was one of two United youngsters who quietly moved to Liverpool in 2005; he could have moved to Colchester instead, but according to their manager in July 2005, "Ramon won't be staying with us. I liked what I saw in the games he played and worked hard to negotiate a contract with him, but it came down to us having to make him our best paid player to get him here....Ramon's agent asked me where his fee was coming from and if he wasn't getting it, Ramon would be going elsewhere. At that stage, I knew it was unlikely the deal would go through" - obviously Liverpool offered more than the £450 a week Colchester put on the table; released after a season in Liverpool reserves, moved to Scunthorpe but broke an ankle, failed to make their team and was released at the end of last season.
Sylvan Ebanks-Blake (FW) : another of those Liverpool fans that creep through at United, he did at least score a goal for United (in the Carling Cup), broke a leg in 2005 but recovered well and sold to Plymouth in 2006, where he's had a fair degree of success.
David Poole (MF ) : moved to Yeovil in 2005, but then loaned by them to Stockport County in 2006 and sold to County later last season for £100,000.
Sources
mostly Wikipedia I'm afraid, with some digging around on Google
Beachcroft LLP Press Release
I see Sarah Winnerburn on Football365 has been following some similar searches, with little more success, although for some reason she has skipped over Mads Timm
And think how pleased cousin Charley will be to come out and find herself related to a famous Sunderland player (I am told that when this piece of news was announced in the "house" Charley didn't appear to know where Sunderland was).
It proves again that you're lucky if a couple of players from even the best youth teams make it as first-team regulars, especially at United.
Flicking around some of the archived blog threads from 2002, the names most frequently mentioned as youngsters likely to break through into the first team squad were Richardson, Mads Timm (see below) and, perhaps surprisingly, the Scottish player.
So the stars of the 2003 FA Youth Cup winning side are gradually diminishing at Old Trafford and there are now only three left. David Jones (the captain) could probably have stayed longer, but decided to leave last year, and won promotion with Derby. Phil Bardsley may yet stay at Old Trafford, but is clearly free to go if a decent offer emerges (and I have even seen him proposed as an England right-back of the future). Chris Eagles will have at least one more season in the first-team squad, to see if he can kick on, particularly after a couple of goals on the Asian tour. Tom Heaton is still on the books, although goalkeepers are always a bit different.
For the whole squad :
Luke Steele (GK) : at one point left as United's second-choice keeper, departed in 2006 for West Brom, as part of the deal that brought Tomas Kuszczak to United, although he has spent most of his time with them on loan at Coventry.
Phil Bardsley (DF) : lived in the shadow of The Cliff, and joined the United academy at 8 years old; still at Old Trafford, had a colourful loan spell at Rangers, more recently on loan to Villa and now strongly rumoured to be on his way to Everton.
Paul McShane (DF) : spent a successful season on loan at Brighton in 2005-06,where he was Player of the Season, before United sold him to West Brom along with Luke Steele; successful international debut for Republic of Ireland last season; recently bought by Keano for Sunderland and will join Kieran there this season.
Lee Sims (DF) : can't really find out what happened to him, after a trial at Cardiff in 2004 (although that same year on Championship Manager one bloke brought Sims in for Gary Neville, pushed up his value to £7 million and had him playing for England -amazing where Google will take you and, sadly, probably the closest Lee Sims will ever come to fame).
Lee Lawrence (DF) : loaned to Shrewsbury in 2004, released by United when the Pontins League side was discontinued, played for Livingston in Scotland but current whereabouts unclear.
David Jones (MF) : see above, sold to Derby County for £1 million, which Billy Davies reckoned was one of his best bargains ever, saving some £3\4 million on his real value; left-footed and eligible to play for both England and Wales; will be interesting to see how he manages in the Premiership.
Kieran Richardson (MF) : see above, sold to Sunderland for something that may presumably amount to £5.5 million if Sunderland reach Europe and Kieran scores a hat-trick for England.
Chris Eagles (MF) : see above, still at United, some eye=catching goals in Asia and is being talked up by SAF at the moment.
Eddie Johnson (FW) : after various loan spells, one of seven players released by United at the end of 2005-06, and moved to Bradford City.
Mads Timm (FW) (above) : once the most glittering of the young prospects, ("seasoned observers like Bryan Robson were left in awe by the FA Youth Cup semi-final performance of Manchester United's Danish star" - "different class" says Barry Fry), sent to a YOI for 12 months in 2005 for dangerous driving after racing another United youngster on public roads, was supported by United and returned to the club on release, but one of seven players released by United at the end of 2005-06 and returned to OB, one of his previous Danish clubs.
Ben Collett (MF) : young player of the year in 2003, another victim of the loss of a reserve team in 2005, adventurously moved first to New Zealand Knights and then on to Dutch club Apeldoorn. Currently involved in a claim for damages against Middlesbrough FC and Gary Smith, for a leg-breaking tackle in May 2003. According to his lawyer, "Ben was one of Manchester United’s most talented young footballers, but the seriousness of this injury ended his prospects of a promising future in the Premier League at the age of just 18. We expect that the damage to his career and loss of earnings will result in significant compensation."
Tom Heaton (GK) : loaned to Swindon last season, still at United and in the squad touring Asia.
Mark Howard (MF) : one of seven players released by United at the end of 2005-06 season, moved to Danish club Brondby.
Phil Picken (DF) : loaned to Chesterfield in 2005 and subsequently moved there permanently; recently had an operation for a double hernia but should be fit for the start of the new season.
Ramon Calliste (FW) : Welsh youth international who, strangely, in view of all the current fuss, was one of two United youngsters who quietly moved to Liverpool in 2005; he could have moved to Colchester instead, but according to their manager in July 2005, "Ramon won't be staying with us. I liked what I saw in the games he played and worked hard to negotiate a contract with him, but it came down to us having to make him our best paid player to get him here....Ramon's agent asked me where his fee was coming from and if he wasn't getting it, Ramon would be going elsewhere. At that stage, I knew it was unlikely the deal would go through" - obviously Liverpool offered more than the £450 a week Colchester put on the table; released after a season in Liverpool reserves, moved to Scunthorpe but broke an ankle, failed to make their team and was released at the end of last season.
Sylvan Ebanks-Blake (FW) : another of those Liverpool fans that creep through at United, he did at least score a goal for United (in the Carling Cup), broke a leg in 2005 but recovered well and sold to Plymouth in 2006, where he's had a fair degree of success.
David Poole (MF ) : moved to Yeovil in 2005, but then loaned by them to Stockport County in 2006 and sold to County later last season for £100,000.
Sources
mostly Wikipedia I'm afraid, with some digging around on Google
Beachcroft LLP Press Release
I see Sarah Winnerburn on Football365 has been following some similar searches, with little more success, although for some reason she has skipped over Mads Timm
Limp Along Leslie
'Limp Along Leslie' is another character who originally emerged in the DC Thomson story-papers, in his case The Wizard from 1951-1955. The stories were reprinted in the early 60s and then reproduced in picture-story form in other Thomson comics (I think The New Hotspur), in the late 60s/70s. He also featured in the first issue of Buddy another Thomson launch of 1981 (along with other recycled heroes like The Wolf of Kabul, Captain Bill Sampson, who fought for the empire in the east, along with his faithful companion Chung - a splendid native chap who smashed in bad people's skulls with an old cricket bat). Thomson were clearly convinced that, for normal people at least, the comic reading "window" was about five years and that they could recycle a story after that sort of period.
Leslie Tomson is a creative footballer, an inside-forward, and captain of a team called Darbury Rangers. Due to a childhood car accident, in which both his parents were killed, his left leg was shorter than his right, and he walked with a slight limp, hence the nickname. "Leslie could not move as fast as other players, but what he lacked in speed he more than make up for in skill and craft". Amongst his skills is an amazing ability to bend the ball, something which in those days was largely limited to foreign players (I remain convinced that there are more connotations to "banana shot" than just the shape of the fruit).
As so many characters in comics have to have a second life, if only to vary the plot and to produce situations of conflict, Leslie spends his time running Low Dyke Farm, a sheep-farm in the Peak District (well in "Peakshire") outside Dalestone for his widowed aunt.
"Leslie’s brilliant hat-trick had put the Rangers into the semi-finals of the cup. Dad Moss, the team manager, was flushed with excitement as he watched the players come in. “Les, two England selectors have been watching the game,” he said. “I reckon you’ll be well in the running for an international Cap against Scotland at Hampden Park.” “I don’t know that I want to be picked for England,” muttered Leslie. “You don’t want a Cap?” gasped Moss. “Of course I do!” snapped Leslie. “But the Hampden Park match is on the same day as the National Sheepdog Trial, and I’ve entered Pal.” Leslie referred to his small black and white sheepdog. Leslie’s father, the late John Tomson, had won an International Trial with his famous dog, Skipper. He had also been captain of the Rangers and an England internationalist. Les wanted to follow in his footsteps. Now it looked as if Leslie might have to sacrifice one ambition for the sake of the other."
Limp Along Leslie 18 episodes in The Wizard issues 1302 – 1313 (1951)
Limp Along Leslie 37 episodes in The Wizard issues 1333 - 1369 (1951 – 1952)
Limp Along Leslie 35 episodes in The Wizard issues 1386 - 1420 (1952 - 1953)
Limp Along Leslie in Summer 3 episodes in The Wizard issues 1429 - 1430 (1953)
The Wild Man of the Rangers 34 episodes in The Wizard issues 1439 - 1472 (1953 - 1954)
He Never Said a Word 20 episodes in The Wizard issues 1490 - 1509 (1954 - 1955)
Limp Along Leslie 9 episodes in The Wizard issues 1541 - 1549 (1955)
Limp Along Leslie 52 episodes (Reprint of two series) in The Wizard issues 1740 – 1791 (1959 - 1960)
Mister Ninety Minutes 34 episodes (Reprint of The Wild Man of the Rangers) in The Wizard issues 1854 – 1887 (1961 - 1962)
Source : http://www.britishcomics.20m.com/home.htm Vic Whittle's marvellous site.
Leslie Tomson is a creative footballer, an inside-forward, and captain of a team called Darbury Rangers. Due to a childhood car accident, in which both his parents were killed, his left leg was shorter than his right, and he walked with a slight limp, hence the nickname. "Leslie could not move as fast as other players, but what he lacked in speed he more than make up for in skill and craft". Amongst his skills is an amazing ability to bend the ball, something which in those days was largely limited to foreign players (I remain convinced that there are more connotations to "banana shot" than just the shape of the fruit).
As so many characters in comics have to have a second life, if only to vary the plot and to produce situations of conflict, Leslie spends his time running Low Dyke Farm, a sheep-farm in the Peak District (well in "Peakshire") outside Dalestone for his widowed aunt.
"Leslie’s brilliant hat-trick had put the Rangers into the semi-finals of the cup. Dad Moss, the team manager, was flushed with excitement as he watched the players come in. “Les, two England selectors have been watching the game,” he said. “I reckon you’ll be well in the running for an international Cap against Scotland at Hampden Park.” “I don’t know that I want to be picked for England,” muttered Leslie. “You don’t want a Cap?” gasped Moss. “Of course I do!” snapped Leslie. “But the Hampden Park match is on the same day as the National Sheepdog Trial, and I’ve entered Pal.” Leslie referred to his small black and white sheepdog. Leslie’s father, the late John Tomson, had won an International Trial with his famous dog, Skipper. He had also been captain of the Rangers and an England internationalist. Les wanted to follow in his footsteps. Now it looked as if Leslie might have to sacrifice one ambition for the sake of the other."
Limp Along Leslie 18 episodes in The Wizard issues 1302 – 1313 (1951)
Limp Along Leslie 37 episodes in The Wizard issues 1333 - 1369 (1951 – 1952)
Limp Along Leslie 35 episodes in The Wizard issues 1386 - 1420 (1952 - 1953)
Limp Along Leslie in Summer 3 episodes in The Wizard issues 1429 - 1430 (1953)
The Wild Man of the Rangers 34 episodes in The Wizard issues 1439 - 1472 (1953 - 1954)
He Never Said a Word 20 episodes in The Wizard issues 1490 - 1509 (1954 - 1955)
Limp Along Leslie 9 episodes in The Wizard issues 1541 - 1549 (1955)
Limp Along Leslie 52 episodes (Reprint of two series) in The Wizard issues 1740 – 1791 (1959 - 1960)
Mister Ninety Minutes 34 episodes (Reprint of The Wild Man of the Rangers) in The Wizard issues 1854 – 1887 (1961 - 1962)
Source : http://www.britishcomics.20m.com/home.htm Vic Whittle's marvellous site.
Friday 20 July 2007
A World of Brighter Colours
"Defence is negation; attack, as we saw it, perfectly executed, is life, and on Saturday we were taken by the hand and led into a world where the colours were a bit brighter and the outlines sharper."
Geoffrey Green, The Times : match report of the 1948 Cup Final
The Unbeatable Manny Critch
This story was in the Rover in 1966, to fit in with the World Cup finals.
It featured the ultimate giantkillers, a small island nation (somewhere in the Pacific I fancy) who enter the World Cup and get to the finals, because they have a goalkeeper who never concedes a goal. The rest of the team are pretty much there to make up the numbers, although I think there is one chap who occasionally scores a goal so they can win 1-0.
In fact, the team get all the way to the final of the World Cup and, eventually, lose on the toss of a coin, because no-one can break the deadlock. Manny Kritch, the goalkeeper, gets to call the toss and gets it wrong.
The historical interest, of course, is that in 1966, there was clearly no provision for a penalty shoot-out. If there had been, one must assume that a small Pacific island would have been world cup winners, and Kenneth Wolstenholme, Sir Geoff Hurst et al would never have had their moment of fame.
It featured the ultimate giantkillers, a small island nation (somewhere in the Pacific I fancy) who enter the World Cup and get to the finals, because they have a goalkeeper who never concedes a goal. The rest of the team are pretty much there to make up the numbers, although I think there is one chap who occasionally scores a goal so they can win 1-0.
In fact, the team get all the way to the final of the World Cup and, eventually, lose on the toss of a coin, because no-one can break the deadlock. Manny Kritch, the goalkeeper, gets to call the toss and gets it wrong.
The historical interest, of course, is that in 1966, there was clearly no provision for a penalty shoot-out. If there had been, one must assume that a small Pacific island would have been world cup winners, and Kenneth Wolstenholme, Sir Geoff Hurst et al would never have had their moment of fame.
Anxious Listeners in Manchester : Episode Two
Caught the result against FC Seoul on the BBC website. So far, none of the new players has got a game and no-one has returned from injury. Very much last season. Nothing wrong in that of course.
Also viewed some fairly shaky video footage of the goals over the web.
Anyway, Manchester United were convincing 4-0 winners over FC Seoul in the second leg of their promotional tour of Asia. Clearly, United are generating more enthusiasm in Asia than Chelsea are managing in the USA. Unless the Becks effect is miraculous, it seems MUFC will be looking at other markets, so roll-on the pre-season tour of Africa. After all, the Glazers already have vehcles for draining money from the US sports market and the NY Yankees tie-up never seemed to produce anything much (apart from free beanie hats for some of the players).
There was a sell-out home crowd of 60,000 or so, many of them wearing United's colours (although it would be interesting to know what proportion of the shirts were authorised club versions) : a banner draped over the stand behind one of the goals read - "Welcome to Korea - Here's Another Old Trafford." United were playing in their white change kit (unclear if there is a new black kit on the way).
The most interesting feature of the team was that Evra started on the left wing (his usual position when picked as full-back, of course). The first goal started from his throw in with Ronaldo topping it off with a low, powerful shot from outside the penalty box. Admittedly, the keeper seemed slow going down.
Evra again was at the heart of the second goal, starting it from the centre of the park, with a neat backheel on by Ronaldo onto the path of Eagles, who showed decent composure to finish it off from the edge of the box.
The third goal was the result of a Rooney-Ronaldo interchange, Rooney going past a Seoul defender and shooting in off the hands of the goalkeeper at the near post. Again, the keeper Kim should have done better, if only to discourage this obsession with blasting the ball at the near post.
The cameras focused every so often on the local favourite Park Ji-Sung, who had earlier carried the Premiership trophy onto the pitch, and then acknowledged the crowd again during half time. He seems very popular in Korea and noise levels rose every time he appeared on the big screen. Hopefully he returns sometime soon in our next campaign, and isn’t just reserved as another marketing ploy.
Scholes, Giggs and Smith came on in the second half, Scholes picking up his customary booking. The home side failed to test Edwin van der Sar in the first period but stepped up a gear after the break, coming close when a header by Kwak Tae-hwi, from a free kick, went narrowly wide.
But it was United who struck again on the hour when Giggs advanced into the Seoul penalty box to set up Evra for the goal he deserved with a finish from a narrow angle. Rooney and Ronaldo were the headline grabbers, but from all reports Evra was good on the left wing and so was Eagles.
Also, going from all reports, Rooney looks very very hungry to be back playing again, after his longest summer break in years.
United next play matches in China against Shenzhen FC and Guangzhou Pharmaceutical. The club confirmed that the squad will be joined by Dong Fangzhuo on Sunday, presumably to fulfill the Park role, rather than actually play.
FC Seoul 0 Manchester United 4 (Ronaldo 6, Eagles 18, Rooney 21, Evra 61)
FC Seoul: Kim (Kim, 82), Kwak, Adilson, Lee (Kim, 45), Kon (Koh, 73), Choi, Ki (Song, 82), Lee Chung-Yong, Ricardo (Ahn, 73), Lee, Jung (Shim, 45)
Manchester Utd: Van der Sar (Kuszczak, 45), Bardsley (Simpson, 45), Ferdinand, Vidic (Evans, 77), Silvestre, Eagles, Carrick (Scholes, 45), O'Shea, Evra, Rooney (Smith, 45), Ronaldo (Giggs, 45)
Goals: Ronaldo06, Eagles 18, Rooney 21, Evra 60
Attendance: 60,000
Also viewed some fairly shaky video footage of the goals over the web.
Anyway, Manchester United were convincing 4-0 winners over FC Seoul in the second leg of their promotional tour of Asia. Clearly, United are generating more enthusiasm in Asia than Chelsea are managing in the USA. Unless the Becks effect is miraculous, it seems MUFC will be looking at other markets, so roll-on the pre-season tour of Africa. After all, the Glazers already have vehcles for draining money from the US sports market and the NY Yankees tie-up never seemed to produce anything much (apart from free beanie hats for some of the players).
There was a sell-out home crowd of 60,000 or so, many of them wearing United's colours (although it would be interesting to know what proportion of the shirts were authorised club versions) : a banner draped over the stand behind one of the goals read - "Welcome to Korea - Here's Another Old Trafford." United were playing in their white change kit (unclear if there is a new black kit on the way).
The most interesting feature of the team was that Evra started on the left wing (his usual position when picked as full-back, of course). The first goal started from his throw in with Ronaldo topping it off with a low, powerful shot from outside the penalty box. Admittedly, the keeper seemed slow going down.
Evra again was at the heart of the second goal, starting it from the centre of the park, with a neat backheel on by Ronaldo onto the path of Eagles, who showed decent composure to finish it off from the edge of the box.
The third goal was the result of a Rooney-Ronaldo interchange, Rooney going past a Seoul defender and shooting in off the hands of the goalkeeper at the near post. Again, the keeper Kim should have done better, if only to discourage this obsession with blasting the ball at the near post.
The cameras focused every so often on the local favourite Park Ji-Sung, who had earlier carried the Premiership trophy onto the pitch, and then acknowledged the crowd again during half time. He seems very popular in Korea and noise levels rose every time he appeared on the big screen. Hopefully he returns sometime soon in our next campaign, and isn’t just reserved as another marketing ploy.
Scholes, Giggs and Smith came on in the second half, Scholes picking up his customary booking. The home side failed to test Edwin van der Sar in the first period but stepped up a gear after the break, coming close when a header by Kwak Tae-hwi, from a free kick, went narrowly wide.
But it was United who struck again on the hour when Giggs advanced into the Seoul penalty box to set up Evra for the goal he deserved with a finish from a narrow angle. Rooney and Ronaldo were the headline grabbers, but from all reports Evra was good on the left wing and so was Eagles.
Also, going from all reports, Rooney looks very very hungry to be back playing again, after his longest summer break in years.
United next play matches in China against Shenzhen FC and Guangzhou Pharmaceutical. The club confirmed that the squad will be joined by Dong Fangzhuo on Sunday, presumably to fulfill the Park role, rather than actually play.
FC Seoul 0 Manchester United 4 (Ronaldo 6, Eagles 18, Rooney 21, Evra 61)
FC Seoul: Kim (Kim, 82), Kwak, Adilson, Lee (Kim, 45), Kon (Koh, 73), Choi, Ki (Song, 82), Lee Chung-Yong, Ricardo (Ahn, 73), Lee, Jung (Shim, 45)
Manchester Utd: Van der Sar (Kuszczak, 45), Bardsley (Simpson, 45), Ferdinand, Vidic (Evans, 77), Silvestre, Eagles, Carrick (Scholes, 45), O'Shea, Evra, Rooney (Smith, 45), Ronaldo (Giggs, 45)
Goals: Ronaldo06, Eagles 18, Rooney 21, Evra 60
Attendance: 60,000
Wednesday 18 July 2007
Wally Brand : the Ball of Fire
Too much attention has been given to the wrong characters when talking about footballers in comics, fond though I was for a long time of Roy Race.
So I would like to celebrate some of the other characters I remember from my eternal childhood.
So I would like to celebrate some of the other characters I remember from my eternal childhood.
Wally Brand
Wally Brand was a centre-forward who first featured in the DC Thomson story papers in the early 1950s. The stories were reprinted at intervals and later (like so many Thomson characters and stories) recycled in illustrated form in the picture-story The Victor or The New Hotspur in the later 1960s, when story papers had gone the way of The Magnet and The Gem.
Brand was naturally a trouble-maker, one of those men who rankled with authority by his "plain-speaking" and won few caps for England because of his "attitude". I believe his nickname, "the ball of fire" also referred to his red hair and the fact he wasn't that tall. Of course, these were the days when the England manager was given a team by his selection committee rather than picking it himself, so Brand doesn't get nearly as many caps as his ability deserves.
I recall one story when Brand finds himself, by various accidents, wearing a bowler hat and carrying a tightly rolled umbrella. He is seen by an England selector, who is so impressed by his smartness that Brand finds himself back in the England team.
In the series "Wanted : Men with two right feet", Brand finds himself as captain of a struggling league side, and trying to rebuild it by bringing in young, untried players. As this is a comic, he spots a winger ("Twisty" Topham, I think) in a spiv, street trader running away from the police; he spots a goalkeeper unloading bricks from a wagon.
But the stories are larded with a particular philospophy of football : "never apologise" (we know you were trying to do your best); "the best way to beat a man is pass the ball".
As always with Thomson, the identity of the authors isn't given. Pity.
The Ends of the East Lancs Road
Nine senior players have made the direct move between Anfield and Old Trafford, although several others have played for both clubs.
And of course Matt Busby was still on Liverpool's books as a player at the time he agreed to take the job of manager of Manchester United.
These are players who have seen both ends of the East Lancs Road.
Liverpool to Manchester United
1912 Tom Chorlton (1882 - 1952)
Born in Heaton Mersey, Stockport, Tom Chorlton played for County and Accrington Stanley before moving to Liverpool in 1904. He played 121 games for them as a defender, scoring 8 goals (mostly penalties). A regular starter from 1908 -11, he then lost his place and transferred to United in August 1912.
He stayed two seasons with United, but only played four league games at right-back, in 1913-14, before moving to Stalybridge Celtic.
His career ended with World War I.
Manchester United to Liverpool
November 1913 John (Jackie) Sheldon (1888 - 1941)
Born in Clay Cross, Derbyshire, 11 February 1888. Jackie Sheldon played for Nuneaton as an amateur before signing for United in November 1909. He was part of the team that won United's second Championship in 1912. An outside right, he was mainly used as cover for Billy Meredith. As a result, he only played 26 first team games in four seasons before being transferred to Liverpool in November 1913. He remained at Anfield (except for his absence during the war) until he retired nine years later, after scoring twenty times in 147 games.
Sources :
Red11
Red News
wikipedia
lfchistory.net
ynwa.tv (Liverpool fan site)
The Times 25 July 2007
And of course Matt Busby was still on Liverpool's books as a player at the time he agreed to take the job of manager of Manchester United.
These are players who have seen both ends of the East Lancs Road.
Liverpool to Manchester United
1912 Tom Chorlton (1882 - 1952)
Born in Heaton Mersey, Stockport, Tom Chorlton played for County and Accrington Stanley before moving to Liverpool in 1904. He played 121 games for them as a defender, scoring 8 goals (mostly penalties). A regular starter from 1908 -11, he then lost his place and transferred to United in August 1912.He stayed two seasons with United, but only played four league games at right-back, in 1913-14, before moving to Stalybridge Celtic.
His career ended with World War I.
23 September 1920 Tom Miller (£2,000) (1890 - ?)
Born in Motherwell, 30 June 1890, inside forward Tom Miller was brought to Anfield in 1912 for £400. He scored 56 times in 146 Liverpool games, appearing in their first FA Cup Final in 1914 (they lost 1-0 to Burnley in front of King George V, the first monarch to attend a final and the man responsible for the traditional singing of Abide with Me).
Miller was suspended from football for his part in the great 1915 match-fixing scandal involving Liverpool and Manchester United (see below), but he was reinstated after the war and then moved to Old Trafford in September 1920.
He made his United debut at Old Trafford against Tottenham on 25 September and scored his first goal against Oldham two matches later. He played 25 league games that season, scoring 7 goals, and 2 games in the FA Cup, scoring once (against Liverpool at Anfield).
Miller moved back to Scotland with Hearts in July 1921, for £550 plus Arthur Lochhead. Miller played three times for Scotland.
1929 Tommy Reid (1905- ?)
Born in Motherwell, Reid started his career with Liverpool. He scored thirty times in just 55 Liverpool games. After being loaned out to Oldham Athletic, he transferred to Manchester United in 1929. He scored 14 goals in 17 appearances that season and went on to score 67 goals in just 101 games, before being transferred back to Oldham in 1933.
December 1937 Robert (Ted) Savage
Right-half Ted Savage was born in Louth in Lincolnshire. He left Anfield for Old Trafford in December 1937 after 105 Liverpool games following his arrival from Lincoln City in May 1931. He made his debut for Liverpool as a forward, netting twice in a 4-0 defeat of Grimsby Town at Anfield that September, but never scored for them again.
He played only 5 games for United (4 League, one FA Cup) before moving on to Wrexham in November 1938.
1938 Allenby Chilton (1919 - 1996)
see separate profileManchester United to Liverpool
November 1913 John (Jackie) Sheldon (1888 - 1941)
Born in Clay Cross, Derbyshire, 11 February 1888. Jackie Sheldon played for Nuneaton as an amateur before signing for United in November 1909. He was part of the team that won United's second Championship in 1912. An outside right, he was mainly used as cover for Billy Meredith. As a result, he only played 26 first team games in four seasons before being transferred to Liverpool in November 1913. He remained at Anfield (except for his absence during the war) until he retired nine years later, after scoring twenty times in 147 games.Sheldon was alleged to be the ringleader of the 1915 match-fixing scandal, perhaps because of his contacts with both clubs.
The 1915 match-fixing scandal
On 2 April 1915, Good Friday, Liverpool visited Old Trafford for a First Division match. United were struggling against relegation, while Liverpool were comfortable in mid-table. It was generally assumed that football would be halted at the end of the season for the remainder of the Great War, so many of the players probably believed their careers were effectively at an end.
Liverpool lost 2-0, George Anderson scoring a goal for United in each half. Sheldon missed a penalty late on in the match, and there were suspicions that several Liverpool players were hardly trying.
After the match handbills started to appear, alleging that a large amount of money had been bet at odds of 7/1 on a 2-0 win to United. The bookmakers decided not to pay out on the result and offered a £50 reward for information that would unmask the conspirators. The Sporting Chronicle took up the story and claimed that they discovered evidence that players on both sides had got together to concoct a 2-0 scoreline. The newspaper also argued that some of the players had large bets on the result.
An investigation by the FA concluded that players from both sides had been involved in rigging the match: Sandy Turnbull (the goal scoring hero of the 1909 FA Cup final), Arthur Whalley and Enoch "Knocker" West of United, and Jackie Sheldon, Tom Miller (see above), Bob Purcell and Tom Fairfoul of Liverpool. Suspicion attached to several other players as well, although nothing was proved. Some players, such as Liverpool's Fred Pagnam and United's George Anderson (who scored both goals) apparently refused to take part in the scheme (although Anderson was convicted and imprisoned in 1918 for his part in another match-fixing comspiracy). Pagnam claimed he had threatened to score a goal to ruin the result, and indeed hit the bar late in the game, after which several of his team-mates were seen to argue with him. He later testified against his team-mates at the FA hearing and for the FA in West's libel action.
All seven players were banned from playing for life, and even banned from entering football grounds. Knocker West, the only convicted United player who actually took part in the game, vociferously protested his innocence, even going so far as suing the FA for libel. However, he lost the case (twice) and the ban stood. Sandy Turnbull was killed in 1917 serving in World War I. All the other players, except West, had their bans lifted by the FA in 1919, in recognition of their service to the country during the War, and after they had apologised. For continuing to protest his innocence, and possibly for spending the war in a factory rather than fighting, West had to wait until 1945 for his ban to be lifted in a general amnesty, by which time he was 59 and an embittered man. He refused to enter Old Trafford ever again.
The investigation had found that it had been a conspiracy by the players alone - no official from either club was found guilty of any wrong-doing, and neither club was fined or had points deducted. However, although the players' motives for the match-fixing were financial, rather than to save United from relegation, the two points United won from the game were enough to earn them 18th place and safety, one point ahead of Chelsea in 19th place, who were nominally relegated. But the intervention of the World War meant that the Football League did not resume until 1919-20. Before the 1919-20 season started, the League decided to expand the First Division by two teams; Chelsea (along with Arsenal) were elected back into the First Division and thus spared the drop.
His ban lifted, Jackie Sheldon made a further 72 appearances for Liverpool before a serious injury ended his career in 1922, and he was even given a benefit by the club.
May 1921 Fred Hopkin (1895 - 1970) (£2800)
Born in Dewsbury on 23 September 1895, Fred Hopkin first played football for Darlington in 1912, his career there spanning World War 1.
An outside left, he moved to United in 1919. He scored his first goal for United in the Manchester derby (a 3-3 draw) and also scored in United’s first ever visit to Highbury on Saturday 21 February 1920 (when two goals from Joe Spence and one from Hopkin gave United a 3-0 victory). He played two full seasons for United (70 League games - scoring 8 goals - and 4 FA Cup games). In six games for United against Liverpool, he was never on the winning side (4 draws, 2 defeats).
During his time at Old Trafford, United were fined £350 by the FA for the crime of paying Fred more than the maximum wage and for promising to give him a percentage of his transfer fee, which was also illegal.
This showed how much United thought of Hopkin, but he left Old Trafford for £2,800 in May 1921 (Liverpool's record fee at the time) and helped Liverpool to consecutive League titles. He was an ever present during the first title winning season, 1921-22, and missed just 2 of the 42 league matches in the second in 1922-23. However, he was best known as the man whose goal set the Anfield Road end on fire. He was a rare goalscorer, and when he finally struck against Bolton Wanderers in 1923, there were great celebrations. Seconds later, flames rose from the stand, which had to be evacuated.
Hopkin scored a total of twelve goals in 360 Liverpool games, before moving back to Darlington in 1931. He died on March 5 1970, the last survivor of the Liverpool double championship team of the 1920s.
1954 Tommy McNulty (£7,000) (1929 - 1979)
Tommy McNulty was born in Salford on 30 December 1929. McNulty made his senior debut for United against Portsmouth in April 1950 and played 7 games in the remaining part of the season. He played 22 league games in 1951 -52, winning a League Championship medal and 24 the season after. Altogether, the right -back made 59 appearances (57 League, 2 FA Cup - both lost) and one in the Charity Shield, before moving on to Liverpool for £7,000 in February 1954.
He stepped down a division in the process, as Liverpool were in Division 2 at the time. He went on to play 36 times for Liverpool before being offloaded to Hyde United four years later. He died in April 1979.
1964 Phil Chisnall (£25,000)
see separate profile
Played for both clubs
George Livingstone (Liverpool 1902-03; United 1908-1914)
See separate profile.
Neil McBain (United 1921-23; Liverpool 1928)
Scottish international half-back Neil McBain, played for United from 1921-23. He was bought for a fee of £6,000 from Ayr United in November 1921, and was in the team relegated at the end of the 1921-22 season. He played 43 games in all, scoring twice (both in Division 2) before moving to Everton in January 1923. He arrived at Anfield in March 1928, but only stayed eight months, playing twelve times.
Jimmy McInnes (Liverpool 1938-40; United wartime guest)
Scottish left-half Jimmy McInnes made 51 Liverpool appearances after signing from Third Lanark in March 1938 for £5,500, but didn't play for them again after the war. He guested with United during the war, and later became Club Secretary at Anfield from 1955-65. However, he hanged himself in the turnstile area of the Kop in 1965, just four days after Liverpool had won the FA Cup for the first time.
Ted MacDougall (Liverpool 1966-67; United 1972-73)
Ted MacDougall never made the Liverpool first team, but he was on their books in 1966-67, before moving to York City and then Bournemouth. He had an unhappy spell with United, signed by Frank O'Farrell from Bournemouth in September 1972 for £200,000. He played 11 league games for O'Farrell, scoring 4 goals, before the manager was sacked. He played another 7 games under Tommy Docherty, scoring one more goal, before being unloaded on West Ham in March 1973 for £170,000. He then moved on to Norwich, Southampton and subsequently back to Bournemouth.
John Gidman (Liverpool youth; United 1981-86)
Gidman played for Liverpool youth teams before the club released him and he joined Aston Villa in 1971. He was signed by Everton in 1979 for £650,000. A right-back, he then became Manchester United's new manager Ron Atkinson's first signing as he moved to United in 1981 as part of a £450,000 swap deal, with Mickey Thomas moving to Everton. He helped United win the FA Cup in 1983 and 1985. After scoring 4 goals in 120 appearances for United (including 4 substitute appearances), he left the club for rivals Manchester City in 1986. During his two seasons at City, the club was relegated to the Second Division. So Gidman was actually on the books of Liverpool, Everton, United and City.
Stephen Pears (United 1979-85; Liverpool 1995-96)
Keeper Stephen Pears was understudy to Gary Bailey at United, and played 5 games in the 1984-85 season. He then moved to Middlesborough, where he spent 10 successful years. His testimonial match was the final game at Ayresome Park. Liverpool signed him on a free transfer in August 1995 and he sat on the bench five times as understudy to David James, without getting on the pitch.
Peter Beardsley: (United 1982-83; Liverpool 1987-91)
United bought Peter Beardsley from Vancouver Whitecaps in September 1982 for £300,000. He spent a season with them without making much impact, only making one appearance in the League Cup victory against Bournemouth on 6 October 1982. He moved back to Vancouver Whitecaps on 1 March 1983 on a free transfer. Newcastle brought him back from Canada within a few months in a successful move. He arrived at Anfield from Newcastle for £1.9m in July 1987, and scored 59 times in 175 Liverpool games, helping them to claim two League titles and the FA Cup. He was sold to Everton in 1991.
Paul Ince: (United 1989-95; Liverpool 1997-99)
Paul Ince made his United debut against Millwall on 16 September 1989, after his controversial transfer from West Ham for £1 million. He helped them to two League titles, two FA Cups, the European Cup Winners’ Cup, European Super Cup and a League Cup. He played 281 games for United, scoring 29 goals. His last game was the defeat to Everton in the 1995 Cup Final. Over the summer he was sold to Internazionale for £8 million. He joined Liverpool in July 1997 in a £4m deal from Inter, going on to make 81 appearances, and scoring seventeen goals, including the equaliser in a 2-2 draw with United at Anfield, which he celebrated in that somewhat over-dramatic manner. However, he was past his best and Houllier sold him to Middlesbrough for £1m in July 1999.
Michael Nardiello
Michael Nardiello is a teenager from Torquay who moved to Anfield from Manchester United in summer 2005. It's unclear if he was offered a contract renewal by United or not; some rumours say he was sacked for fighting. He was in the Liverpool side that won the FA Youth Cup in 2006, but joined West Brom on 29 June 2006 after impressing Brian Robson in a successful trial. He has played for England U16 and U17 sides .
Ramon Calliste
Oddly, another youngster from Old Trafford, Ramon Calliste, also moved to Liverpool in 2005. The Welsh Under-21’s international was released by United at the end of the season. He spent a season in the Liverpool reserves before they released him as well.
Sources :
Red11
Red News
wikipedia
lfchistory.net
ynwa.tv (Liverpool fan site)
The Times 25 July 2007
Anxious Listeners in Manchester : Episode One
It was whilst listening to a United game on the radio a few years ago that I first heard the commentator speak about "anxious listeners in Manchester".
I imagine there were a lot of hollow jokes from non-United fans about the use of the word "Manchester". But no-one can deny the banks of accumulated anxiety throughout the world, or the passion that is put into the listening and viewing (or sometimes even just the waiting) that goes on whenever United play. The intensity of the experience of the armchair supporter is often denigrated. Many armchair supporters are no less passionate than those who attend games (and looking at the Old Trafford crowds, often considerably more so). It is time someone stood up for them and their experience of supporting, an experience that has, after all, changed the game fundamentally through the TV money.
At the moment, of course, I am only a slightly anxious newspaper reader as United embark on their pre-season campaign. I occasionally debate with myself about subscribing to MUTV, but so far stick to my post-Glazer resolution not to put any more money in their pockets than absolutely necessary. In any event, I haven't even got digital TV yet.
So my experience of United's 2-2 draw with the Japanese champions Urawa Red Diamonds is limited to some newspaper reports and this fine photograph by Junko Kimura of Rooney bursting between two Japanese defenders (seen in full in some papers, but dreadfully cropped in others).
(Photo: Junko Kimura\Getty Images)
Some major concerns seem to be
Is Edwin still a reliable goalkeeper (at least two more major mistakes, it seems)?
Will the introduction of Tevez (if it ever happens) upset the Rooney \ Ronaldo combination that was so potent last season?
Have we defensive depth when we need it?
Can Ronaldo continue to get away with scoring goals just by blasting shots at the near post , like Kanchelskis used to do?
Is Wayne Rooney going bald?
And the Scottish player scores our first goal of the new season.
Urawa RD 2 ( Uchidate 25, Ono 77 ) Manchester United 2 (Fletcher 47, Ronaldo 52)
Team : Van de Sar; Brown, Ferdinand (Evans h-t), Vidic (Simpson h-t), Evra (Silvestre h-t); Fletcher, Carrick (O'Shea 68), Scholes, Ronaldo; Rooney, Giggs (Smith 68)
Subs not used : Kuszczak, Heaton, Bardsley
I imagine there were a lot of hollow jokes from non-United fans about the use of the word "Manchester". But no-one can deny the banks of accumulated anxiety throughout the world, or the passion that is put into the listening and viewing (or sometimes even just the waiting) that goes on whenever United play. The intensity of the experience of the armchair supporter is often denigrated. Many armchair supporters are no less passionate than those who attend games (and looking at the Old Trafford crowds, often considerably more so). It is time someone stood up for them and their experience of supporting, an experience that has, after all, changed the game fundamentally through the TV money.
At the moment, of course, I am only a slightly anxious newspaper reader as United embark on their pre-season campaign. I occasionally debate with myself about subscribing to MUTV, but so far stick to my post-Glazer resolution not to put any more money in their pockets than absolutely necessary. In any event, I haven't even got digital TV yet.
So my experience of United's 2-2 draw with the Japanese champions Urawa Red Diamonds is limited to some newspaper reports and this fine photograph by Junko Kimura of Rooney bursting between two Japanese defenders (seen in full in some papers, but dreadfully cropped in others).
(Photo: Junko Kimura\Getty Images)Some major concerns seem to be
Is Edwin still a reliable goalkeeper (at least two more major mistakes, it seems)?
Will the introduction of Tevez (if it ever happens) upset the Rooney \ Ronaldo combination that was so potent last season?
Have we defensive depth when we need it?
Can Ronaldo continue to get away with scoring goals just by blasting shots at the near post , like Kanchelskis used to do?
Is Wayne Rooney going bald?
And the Scottish player scores our first goal of the new season.
Urawa RD 2 ( Uchidate 25, Ono 77 ) Manchester United 2 (Fletcher 47, Ronaldo 52)
Team : Van de Sar; Brown, Ferdinand (Evans h-t), Vidic (Simpson h-t), Evra (Silvestre h-t); Fletcher, Carrick (O'Shea 68), Scholes, Ronaldo; Rooney, Giggs (Smith 68)
Subs not used : Kuszczak, Heaton, Bardsley
Tuesday 17 July 2007
Phil Chisnall : “I’ve become the answer to a quiz question in recent years,”
Before Phil Chisnall loses his main claim to fame, here is a summary of his career.
(John) Philip Chisnall
Born: 27 October 1942 Park Hospital, Davyhulme, Manchester
Height: 5' 7" Weight: 11st 13lbs
Phil Chisnall took a traditional route to the United first team. As a boy he played for English Martyrs School in Urmston and St Mary's in Stretford, as well as a local team called Dover Park, before representing Stretford Boys, Lancashire Boys and England Boys (six caps).
He was 15 at the time of the Munich air-crash and remembers his mother coming out of the front-door to meet him, to give him the news. "I used to go and watch United one Saturday, City the next" says Chisnall, "but was always a United supporter because we lived so close. I watched Duncan Edwards and the rest of that great team, and the next minute they were gone. It was so sad."
Chisnall and his father had already been courted by United scout Joe Armstrong before Munich and Phil became a part of United's rebuilding. He left school in April, two months after the crash."I left school and went straight to Old Trafford, and at the end of that season I was in the club party which went down to Wembley for the FA Cup final, when we put out a scratch team, with the likes of Ernie Taylor, Bobby Charlton and Alex Dawson. I was straight out of school, but at that age you don't think about things too deeply."
He signed professional forms at 17, and made his first-team debut on December 2, 1961 at Goodison Park. "I remember it well - they had Alex Young and Roy Vernon, and we were hammered 5-1!" said Chisnall.
He is usually described as an inside-right, and mostly wore 8 for United (30 appearances at 8, 14 at 7 and 4 at 10). He insists he was "a midfielder" and was certainly never a major goalscorer.
Over the next three seasons Chisnall played 47 games for United, scoring 10 goals. His first goal was at Maine Road in United's 2-0 win over City in February 1962. He played 13 games that season, 5 in 1962-63 (including his first goal at Old Trafford, against Arsenal).
He was one of three young players who started the first game of the 1963-64 season in place of three members of the Cup-winning side of the previous season. Chisnall, Ian Moir and David Sadler, surprisingly replaced David Herd, Johnny Giles and Albert Quixall. Quixall and Giles left the club soon afterwards.
Chisnall played 28 times that season and scored 8 goals, including his first in Europe (against Willem II) and his first cup goal (in a 5-1 defeat of Sunderland). George Best, then also playing as an inside-forward, who made his debut that season, certainly saw himself as behind Chisnall in the scheme of things. "I couldn't see much hope", Best is quoted as saying by Eamon Dunphy. Perhaps it was Chisnall's part in the humiliating second-leg defeat by Sporting Lisbon in the European Cup quarter-final that changed things. United were 4-1 up from the first leg, but lost 5-0 in Portugal. "Two players, Maurice Setters and Phil Chisnall, a clever skilful inside-forward of whom Busby held a high opinion, were doomed by this dismal performance", is Dunphy's opinion.
In fact, Chisnall played just one more game for United after the Lisbon debacle. His last game was against Wolves at Old Trafford on 28 March 1964.
In 1964 he reckoned the highlight of his time at United was scoring against Real Madrid at Old Trafford in United’s 3-1 victory, but I'm at a loss to know when the game took place .
Certainly, although Chisnall also played four times for the England U-23 side, it seemed he couldn’t establish himself as a regular at Old Trafford.
Decision
“I played for England Under-23s against Germany at Anfield and we won 4-2. I’m not sure whether Shankly was there but it was just before Liverpool came in for me. I remember Matt Busby calling me into his office and saying Bill Shankly was putting in an offer for me. He told me I didn't have to go, but at the time Liverpool were top of the league, on their way to winning it, and United were second.
"The way I looked at it was that Liverpool was just down the road, they were top of the league and I was about to get married. There was a big rivalry in those days in football terms, but there was no battling in the streets. Liverpool had only been in the First Division for two years before they won the league in 1964. They were only just establishing themselves in the top division and the rivalry between United and Liverpool fans wasn’t as strong then as it is now. Liverpool’s real rivals were Everton, while United’s were Man City.
"In fact Matt and Shanks were good mates, or maybe more like father and son. Shanks used to come to Manchester every week for a chat with Matt. When the two teams played, (the players) would have a few pints together afterwards, with no ill will.
"Liverpool was a vibrant place with the Beatles making it big and Shankly reviving Liverpool FC, so I decided to go for it."
Chisnall’s wife suffered more disruption than he did. “The only person who was bothered was the missus,” he said. “I told her I was going to play for Liverpool and it meant she had to take all the curtains down, pack up and move down the East Lancs Road. She wasn’t too pleased.
“No one else said much, even though I was moving between two big teams. Back then it was just a footballer moving from one club to another. I was able to go to Old Trafford and play for Liverpool and get a good reception from the crowd."
Liverpool took 47 points from their last 30 games of the season, after a slow start, to secure their sixth championship title, on 57 points, and qualify for their first European Cup campaign. United were second, four points behind them.
Liverpool Career
Chisnall made his debut for Liverpool as a substitute in the Charity Shield against West Ham, played at Anfield on 15 August 1964.
Ian St John was missing after an appendix operation and his deputy Arrowsmith was carried off the field after ten minutes, with a twisted knee. Roger Hunt moved to centre-forward and Chisnall substituted for Arrowsmith but, according to a contemporary report, “on this display lacked the sharpness and guile to be creative". The match ended 2-2.
Chisnall kept his place for Liverpool’s next game, wearing the number 9 shirt in their first ever European Cup tie against KR Reykjavik in Iceland. A poor clearance of his shot led to Liverpool’s first goal and he then scored their third, in the 57th minute, tapping in after the keeper fumbled a cross from Callaghan. Liverpool won 5-0, Roger Hunt and Gordon Wallace getting two goals each.
In his League debut for Liverpool on 22 August 2004, against Arsenal, Chisnall became the answer to another quiz question when he kicked off the first game ever to be shown on Match of the Day. The programme was shown on BBC2 at 6.30 pm, with highlights of just the one game. As BBC2 at the time was only available to those with 625 line sets living in the London area, the estimated TV audience was 20,000, less than half the attendance at Anfield. The game was introduced by Kenneth Wolstenholme, standing on the side of the pitch, with “expert” comments before and after the game from former Wales international Walley Barnes. Liverpool won 3-2.
Chisnall’s next game for Liverpool was at Elland Road, against Don Revie’s newly-promoted Leeds side. The Leeds side contained Sprake, Reaney, Bremner, Charlton, Giles, the black winger Johanneson and their captain, Bobby Collins who, according to the Yorkshire Post, "made Milne, the current England right-half, look a plodder”. Chisnall was still wearing 9 and “taking St John’s customary deep-lying role”. This was the game when Leeds really announced themselves as a force, beating the champions 4-2. St John returning to fitness, Chisnall was dropped and never really established himself in the Liverpool side again.
He came back into the side only for the last 4 League games of the season, although these included a return to Old Trafford (“I can’t remember getting any stick – it wasn’t like that back then”) and a 2 - 0 win over Chelsea at Anfield (when he scored his only League goal for Liverpool, after 9 minutes ).
The following season, he played only once, although that was in the first leg against Celtic in the semi-final of the European Cup-Winners Cup. Chisnall replaced the injured Roger Hunt in Liverpool's 1-0 defeat at Parkhead.
“Things didn’t really work out for me but I didn’t regret joining Liverpool,” says Chisnall. “It was just circumstance really - I didn’t hit it off. It was a great side with players like Ian St John, Ian Callaghan, Peter Thompson, Roger Hunt, Willie Stevenson, Gordon Milne and Tommy Smith so it was always going to be tough to get into the side.”
Later Career
In August 1967 Chisnall was transferred to Southend United for £12,000. Over the next few seasons he played 161 games for Southend, scoring 32 goals. Southend spent all his time with them in Division 4, and quite a bit of it in the lower half of that Division.
Chisnall (extreme left of middle row) in his last season at SouthendHe remained at Southend until September 1971, when he took the opportunity to return to the North-West and signed for Stockport County, thus missing the first promotion in Southend’s history at the end of the 1971-72 season. (County, on the other hand, had to apply for re-election).
Chisnall played 30 League games for County, scoring 2 goals, before retiring at the end of the season. "My knees weren't that clever - I still need a new kneecap now," he said in 2005.
Managers
“In the space of a year I played under Matt Busby, Bill Shankly and Alf Ramsey, who was manager of England Under-23s at the time. There was something about managers whose name ended in the letter `Y'. At United we had Busby, who was the quiet type, and Jimmy Murphy who was the passionate Welshman. At Liverpool it was the other way around, with Shankly the passionate one and Bob Paisley the calming influence. Ramsey was different again, quite prim and proper. He wouldn't be like Sven-Goran Eriksson, letting players tell you about this and that. He was a loner and everyone knew he was in charge. He was like a military man, all smart and talking posh, not like Busby, Shankly, Murphy and Paisley who came out of the shipyards or the coalmines."
And incidentally the manager at Southend at the end of the period when Chisnall was there was Arthur Rowley (see above). Also ending in Y, and the younger brother of United legend Jack Rowley.
Of course, it isn't true - as I've read - that Phil Chisnall was the only player ever managed by both Busby and Shankly, there was at least one other. Denis Law was managed by Shankly whilst he was at Huddersfield, and persuaded by him to sign his first professional contract with them when he was 17. Not bad company all the same.
After Football
"Football was a game to me," Chisnall says. "I played for fun and was given a few quid for it. It's a bit more intense today. We had no agents, apart from my wife, mind you, she used to take 80 per cent, not just ten!"
As was the norm in those days, he travelled to work on an ordinary service bus. "Fans would come up and say 'why did you do that and you should have done that'. I used to think 'bloody hell, a window cleaner's telling me my job' but you felt privileged to be a footballer and had to keep your mouth shut," he recalled. "There were a lot of nice people on the bus though; supporters and players were much closer then. It was fun."
He obviously didn't make a fortune. In the notes for fans produced at the start of the season after he signed for Liverpool, Chisnall listed his "hobbies" as "horse and dog racing, and playing or watching all kinds of sports". Not surprisingly, after retiring, he ran a couple of betting shops, but they didn't really work out: "After tax and overheads you were working for nowt". So he ended up back alongside some of his old school mates, working in Trafford Park. Rumour had it at one time that he was working at Asda, but in fact he worked on the production line at Soreen.
Soreen, makers of the sweet, sticky malt loaf "beloved of sports people", has been based in Trafford Park since 1958. The factory, hidden behind a giant supermarket, apparently employs over 110 people who produce 70% of the malt loaf sold in Britain.
Chisnall retired from there in about 2004, on steroids for rheumatoid arthritis and troubled by his knee and a mild heart attack.
“These days I live close to Old Trafford in Urmston and I like to see both United and Liverpool do well" he says diplomatically, and attends ex-players events at both clubs.
The Heinze saga has recently given Chisnall another little flurry of attention and interviews. However, when The Times contacted him about the Heinze saga, he admitted things had changed since his day. "It is so different now. If Heinze turns up at Old Trafford in a Liverpool shirt, there will be hell to pay.”
Adam Saville, one of his 11 grandchildren, is a winger in the United Academy. "He's a left-footer, so that might help," said Chisnall. Another grandson, Thomas Guest, was on Everton's books and then trained with Stockport.
If I was a Liverpool fan, I wouldn't put too much trust in his diplomacy.
Sources :
IV Stuart Brennan, Manchester Evening News, Sept 17 2005
IV James Pearce, Liverpool Echo, Jul 6 2007
IV Alex Murphy, The Times, Jul 25 2007
IV Louise Taylor, The Guardian, Jul 26 2007
Eamon Dunphy, A Strange Kind of Glory
Other info and stats nicked from various places, including Southend, Liverpool and Leeds web-sites. Sadly, I could find no decent info on any Manchester United or Stockport County websites.
Sunday 15 July 2007
Argentina
Of course, Argentina failed miserably against Brazil. It always worries me when I see attacking talent stifled, caught on the counter-attack and becoming increasingly frustrated and bemused at an inability to create anything significant. It reminds me all too forcefully of our bad days.
Now let's be clear, the United supporters' chant of Ar-gen-tina never had much to do with Veron or Heinze, but was an assertion of what all supporters know to be true, club is much more important than country ever can be. Players, of course, can have a different perspective.
Even without the folk memory of the chant , supporting Argentina was inevitable, with Heinze, Tevez and Veron involved (and Anderson not moving off the Brazil bench). All were supposed to have had good tournaments, with words like "revitalised" and "inspirational" being used in reports. As it turned out, Tevez appeared lost, Veron reminded us only of his peerless ability to lose the ball in a crucial position and Heinze, whilst not as impulsively kamikaze as at the end of last season, still didn't convince. Since his return from injury, he appears to have lost his outstanding ability to head the ball, as well as being increasingly reluctant to press over the half-way line, perhaps because he's not as confident of getting back.
Although his form may return, it's not surprising the club is unwilling to offer him a new contract at this stage (particularly now Ronaldo appears fully committed to staying - until then I'd have offered Heinze a new contract simply on the basis he was Ronaldo's best friend - "attention to detail" you see).
And Argentinian players at present do seem to come with a disconcerting amount of baggage, relatives, agents, companies, which seems likely only to fill the pockets of Maurice Watkins and his learned colleagues.
Of course, no-one wants Gaby to go to Liverpool, although I can see the attraction from his point of view, particularly if he's settled in the North-West.
But it would hardly be fair to Phil Chisnall, to rob him of his fame in his retirement. As Phil says, “I’ve become the answer to a quiz question in recent years”, and that is something that should not be sacrificed wantonly, and I'm sure it is the main reason the club is being obstructive.
Now let's be clear, the United supporters' chant of Ar-gen-tina never had much to do with Veron or Heinze, but was an assertion of what all supporters know to be true, club is much more important than country ever can be. Players, of course, can have a different perspective.
Even without the folk memory of the chant , supporting Argentina was inevitable, with Heinze, Tevez and Veron involved (and Anderson not moving off the Brazil bench). All were supposed to have had good tournaments, with words like "revitalised" and "inspirational" being used in reports. As it turned out, Tevez appeared lost, Veron reminded us only of his peerless ability to lose the ball in a crucial position and Heinze, whilst not as impulsively kamikaze as at the end of last season, still didn't convince. Since his return from injury, he appears to have lost his outstanding ability to head the ball, as well as being increasingly reluctant to press over the half-way line, perhaps because he's not as confident of getting back.
Although his form may return, it's not surprising the club is unwilling to offer him a new contract at this stage (particularly now Ronaldo appears fully committed to staying - until then I'd have offered Heinze a new contract simply on the basis he was Ronaldo's best friend - "attention to detail" you see).
And Argentinian players at present do seem to come with a disconcerting amount of baggage, relatives, agents, companies, which seems likely only to fill the pockets of Maurice Watkins and his learned colleagues.
Of course, no-one wants Gaby to go to Liverpool, although I can see the attraction from his point of view, particularly if he's settled in the North-West.
But it would hardly be fair to Phil Chisnall, to rob him of his fame in his retirement. As Phil says, “I’ve become the answer to a quiz question in recent years”, and that is something that should not be sacrificed wantonly, and I'm sure it is the main reason the club is being obstructive.
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